Hello, this is Will Finn.
I was the supervising animator on Iago, the parrot.
And I'm Eric Goldberg.
I was the supervising animator on the Genie.
And my name is Glen Keane,
and I was supervising animator on the character of Aladdin.
Very good, Glen, and this is Andreas Deja.
I supervised the animation of Jafar, and welcome, everybody,
to the Animators Audio Commentary for Aladdin.
GOLDBERG: Who's that Alan Menken guy?
- He hasn't done a lot of stuff, has he? - (FINN LAUGHS)
FINN: He's an up and coming young composer.
GOLDBERG: I hear he's talented.
FINN: Talented guy. Super talented. GOLDBERG: Yeah.
Don Ernst.
KEANE: This is a great beginning for the picture.
No matter how many times I watched it,
I always felt like it was tempting me
to really be curious as to what this story was gonna tell me.
FINN: Yeah, it's that once upon a time quality, draws you in.
GOLDBERG: John Musker and Ron Clements, the directors,
seem to have a great sense of being able to tempt the audience
to enter the particular world.
I remember that Little Mermaid had the same feeling,
as we were traveling underwater, and eventually finding Ariel.
Taking you in.
FINN: Taking you on a great adventure.
Hang on, you're not gonna be able to believe what you see.
Ah, salaam and good evening to you, worthy friend.
GOLDBERG: The narrator here, who is also the voice of Robin Williams,
was animated by Duncan Marjoribanks.
FINN: He was originally supposed to be the Genie at the end, right?
GOLDBERG: That's right, but it got deep sixed at a preview,
because everyone thought the movie was over before we revealed that.
- So we figured, okay, the movie's over. - KEANE: Didn't need it.
Combination hookah and coffeemaker. Also makes julienne fries.
Will not break. Will not...
GOLDBERG: The way they recorded the narrator spiel
as he's selling things here
is to get Robin Williams in the studio with a box full of junk,
with a cover on it, and they pulled the cover off,
opened the mic, and let Robin fly. (LAUGHS)
FINN: It was stuff from the thrift store down the street, right?
GOLDBERG: Yes, exactly.
FINN: That's great. (LAUGHS) That's a great gag.
This really sets the tone, too, that it's gonna be a comedy,
and an irreverent take on this tale, and not the classic Arabian Nights.
A young man who, like this lamp, was more than what he seemed.
A diamond in the rough.
GOLDBERG: It tells the audience it's okay to laugh,
which I think is actually quite bright.
FINN: Yeah, and it gets Robin's voice in the picture early on, too,
which is important 'cause he doesn't arrive until,
- what, about 30 minutes into it? - GOLDBERG: Yeah.
FINN: And really helps him set the tone for the movie.
You are late.
T. Dan Hofstedt did this thief
T. Dan's a great caricaturist, and he did Gazeem.
Fun animator, too.
DEJA: I remember this was some of the first Jafar animation we did.
FINN: This was the first sequence. We worked on it together, I remember.
DEJA: I was trying to give his hands sort of a spider look,
very skinny and eerie.
KEANE: It's a nice contrast, each of the character designs.
From Jafar, that big, tall triangular shape,
to Iago, that little round...
KEANE: Well, I didn't realize it till afterwards, but Eric told me that
the idea was to make Iago look like a clay pot.
GOLDBERG: Yeah, he was like a clay pot,
or a Turkish bottle, you know.
FINN: When I was adapting the design, I kept on wondering,
"Why does he have a pot belly?"
(GOLDBERG LAUGHS)
FINN: Gilbert isn't fat, and parrots aren't fat,
but Eric told me it's because
he's supposed to be like an inverted minaret.
Cave of Wonders.
By Allah.
DEJA: The fun thing was, with those two characters,
putting them together was very easy,
because Jafar had these broad shoulders,
and Iago could pace up and down, and do his thing,
and that worked very well.
FINN: Also, the character of a parrot, his legs are like shock absorbers,
so if you moved the shoulders, I'd just animate the head.
Then, when you were finished, I'd have his lower body
just ride wherever the shoulders were.
DEJA: Some nice special effects on that. Look at that.
Gorgeous.
It is I, Gazeem, a humble thief.
Know this.
Only one may enter...
GOLDBERG: Just a word about the tiger's head entrance to the cave here.
That was one of the earliest computer-generated pieces at Disney,
done by Steve Goldberg, and in fact,
probably the first piece of
computer-animated lip sync that the studio did.
I did very rough animation, which served as a guide for Steve.
And it was quite a challenge to get something that massive and huge
to actually have lip sync that was convincing,
and still make it look like part of the background.
And I thought Steve did a great job.
(COUGHING)
I can't believe it. I just don't believe it.
We're never gonna get a hold of that stupid lamp.
Just forget it. Look at this. I'm so ticked off that I'm molting.
FINN: This was fun. These are the earliest scenes we did.
This was the first scene I did.
I did this scene, and that sold them on the voice,
but they kept changing Jafar's line at the end, remember, Andreas?
So the scene was on our desks for six months,
and got a chance to keep reworking it till we really got the design working,
was happy with it.
Yes.
Only one may enter.
I must find this one, this...
Diamond in the rough.
Stop! Thief!
KEANE: This whole song, One Jump Ahead, was...
The lyrics that Tim Rice wrote were really genius,
I mean, the way he threw so much material
packed into this short song.
And in all of the scenes,
we raced full speed, 100 miles an hour, animating.
Each scene was, I don't know.
Typically, each scene seemed it would be about two feet long.
A lot of this is Tony DeRosa's animation.
GOLDBERG: Originally, Aladdin's song at the beginning here
was Proud Of Your Boy,
which Aladdin sung to voice his desire
to make his mother proud of him even though he was a street urchin,
and looked like he'd never amount to anything.
And when the movie changed to a slightly more comic version
after the first screening,
which everyone refers to as Black Friday,
that song got changed as well.
I do remember, also, the purpose for the song was,
instead of Proud Of Your Boy, which he used to sing,
this song established, first of all, that Aladdin could be comic,
and physical, and pretty zippy-looking tonally,
which fit more with the rest of the movie,
before the Genie firecracker gets let off 20 minutes in,
and it works great.
It's really fun to see the choreography
and the strong poses in all of this animation.
FINN: It's also great to see good-looking miscellaneous characters.
(ALL LAUGHING)
This was the first Disney movie in a long time to have that,
and again, because there was so much strength in the design,
we really had a great-looking cast of characters, and guys like him.
GOLDBERG: Even the sheep had Hirschfeldian curlicues on them.
I don't know if anyone noticed, but...
KEANE: You only had so much time to do it,
so the poses had to be really clear and simple.
It was really a return back to a Tex Avery kind of a feel.
DEJA: But it's all clear and all reads.
The timing is so well thought-out that it just works so well.
KEANE: It was a nice change, coming off of Beauty and the Beast.
FINN: 'Cause that was more volumetric kind of drawing, right?
KEANE: Yeah. DEJA: And the style is so different.
There was more realism in Beauty and the Beast.
- This is more caricature. - FINN: Yeah.
This was the movie that, as animators,
this whole generation was really dying to prove
you could make a cartoon feature.
GOLDBERG: There's Tom Sito. FINN: Yes.
GOLDBERG: Tom Sito is one of my animators, great story guy,
and yes, he is immortalized as crazy Hakim.
(ALL LAUGHING)
FINN: Self-animated, too, by the way. GOLDBERG: Yes, that's his scene.
KEANE: Abu is hilarious.
I remember when I saw the movie with an audience for the first time,
people went nuts when the Abu title came up in the credits.
Somebody cheered, "The monkey rules!"
(ALL LAUGHING)
KEANE: Yeah. Yesterday, I was drawing Aladdin for somebody,
and a kid said, "Hey, where's Abu?"
Aladdin just wasn't done if Abu wasn't on his shoulder.
When we started on this picture,
thinking of Aladdin as a guy who was the underdog,
we were doing some designs of him as a little bit younger-looking,
shorter character, actually.
That design change came... I don't know.
We had already animated a whole thousand feet of him,
and we had to go back and we had to redo all of that footage.
We pushed the shoulders broader, wider,
based somewhat on volleyball players I'd been sketching
down at Manhattan Beach at the time.
So, Jeffrey Katzenberg wanted to see an Aladdin
that was more of heroic proportions,
somebody that could actually
merit the love of this incredibly gorgeous Princess Jasmine.
So we ended up changing the designs to him.
You are a worthless street rat.
The design of Aladdin's pants,
MC Hammer was really big at that time,
and he had these great MC Hammer pants,
which we actually made some of those as we were designing the character.
Aladdin is basically two triangles, inverted.
The top triangle comes down to the waist,
and the bottom triangle supports.
All of the characters were very simple graphic designs.
(SINGING) Riffraff, street rat
DEJA: We should say something about the backgrounds, too.
They are just so gorgeous.
To me, this movie almost looked like one of the old Technicolor movies.
The blues were really rich, and the reds were really bright.
They'd find out
GOLDBERG: Give a little credit to
Richard Vander Wende as production designer,
Kathy Altieri as head of background, and great work.
- Bill Perkins, art director. - KEANE: Yeah.
Someday, Abu, things are gonna change.
We'll be rich, live in a palace...
GOLDBERG: And here we have the Sultan.
KEANE: David Pruiksma.
He had just done Mrs. Potts, so this wasn't much of a stretch, really.
He's sort of a little teapot himself
GOLDBERG: That's true. I think Dave did a great job
of getting that rounded style in his animation, too, in that character.
I think it really works.
And Mark Henn's Jasmine is beautiful.
KEANE: And some of Aaron Blaise's first animation,
after he did some of the Beast with me.
He did the tiger, and directed Brother Bear.
FINN: I remember reading an article where someone complained
that Disney put all these characters into movies to sell toys.
And I remember Peter Schneider
begging John Musker and Ron Clements
- to take characters out of the movie. - (GOLDBERG LAUGHING)
FINN: And they wanted a tiger in the movie, and they got it.
It was an artistic choice.
It wasn't the cynical marketing choice that they got accused of
KEANE: This is typical Mark Henn,
very subtle, believable, female animation.
His ability to communicate with little, slight moves.
A tilt of the head... It's just gorgeous.
DEJA: It's always really natural, the way the hair overlaps,
and the way she moves and gestures.
GOLDBERG: One thing I'd like to mention is
look how simple the design is,
particularly on Jasmine's costume.
Elder statesmen animators used to tell me,
"It's not how you draw it,"
"but how you move it that defines the characters,"
and I think Jasmine is a terrific example of that.
You don 't need any more detail on her pants than what's there,
but you know there's a person underneath, and who that person is.
Allah forbid you should have any daughters.
KEANE: And this picture, to every bit of detail, too,
was somebody drawing those lines in there.
I love the places where we do have design, like Jafar's beard.
Just that little squiggle there is so fun,
because there's such simplicity around that shape.
DEJA: The only thing is, I was always waiting for a scene
where I could take his finger, and have it twirl...
Twirling his beard, that looks like a corkscrew, really,
and I never found it. It's not in the movie.
It's this suitor business. Jasmine refuses...
FINN: This was some of Tony Bancroft's first stuff on Iago.
Tony was one of the crew animators.
Because there wasn't much footage of Iago in the movie,
I was able to let each animator basically take their own sequences,
and I had my own sequences.
Now, then, perhaps I can divine a solution
to this thorny problem.
DEJA: And I should mention the voice of Jafar is Jonathan Freeman,
the use of the mystic blue diamond.
A stage actor from the East Coast, who's done a lot of Broadway shows,
and was absolutely perfect for the role.
Very smooth and oily
and yet had a sense of humor about him as well.
One influence in the design of Jafar, and even his personality a little bit,
was Maleficent from Sleeping Beauty.
She was the one who came closest, I think, graphically in style,
and she was also a villainess who, like Marc Davis, her animator,
would always say, would hold still and make speeches.
She was very controlled in her animation.
And once I decided I wanted to do something like that with Jafar,
then looking back at Sleeping Beauty and her animation,
Maleficent's animation really helped me.
Bam! Whack!
Calm yourself, Iago.
GOLDBERG: The two of them are a great contrast together as well,
because, you know, Jafar is snide and underplayed.
(LAUGHS) And Iago is boiling over practically every time he's on screen.
KEANE: That was something through this whole picture,
as I watch this with you guys,
how much fun it is to surprise each other during the film.
I mean, watching in dailies the scenes that would come out.
And you realize how everybody's work
was just so surprisingly better, and better, and better.
And it was always a challenge.
You wanted your scene to stand up next to...
Whether it was an Iago scene, or Jafar, or Genie.
I think everybody was really on the same page with this.
This was a movie we all wanted to make,
'cause they said you can't make a cartoon-y feature.
They tried with Alice, and it wasn't a success.
We just thought, maybe if you had the right story and the right crew,
you could make a cartoon-y feature. And we did.
I mean, it was a delight.
There's this feeling of fun when you have a design
that's based on curves and fluid movements.
When we all came off of Beauty and the Beast,
I'd been working on the Beast, and it was a lot more sculpted,
classic kind of drawing.
Jumping into this was fun.
I guess fun is just the best word for it,
and you feel it when you watch the film.
There's some of Nik Ranieri's animation on this guy.
DEJA: Yeah, he did all the secondary characters in the sequence.
- He did a great job. - KEANE: Looks like John, too.
(GOLDBERG LAUGHS)
- Yeah, it does. - FINN: That would be a self-portrait.
KEANE: That's the first scene of Aladdin right there.
FINN: Is it really? KEANE: Yeah. First one drew.
I think ended up redrawing it 10 different times as the design changed.
FINN: isn't the first always the hardest? KEANE: Oh, gosh. Yeah.
DEJA: The first Jafar scene had seven takes or something.
KEANE: Yeah.
KEANE: Chris Wahl animated this big, heavy guy.
I like Chris's animation. It's always fun to watch.
FINN: What I'm surprised at is how huge his hands are next to Jasmine's.
KEANE: And you bought it, you know? I mean...
- It's a cartoon. - (ALL LAUGHING)
FINN: Whoa! Could we do this?
KEANE: Yeah, not PC.
No! No, please!
This was funny. It's some of the first stuff Ted and Terry wrote.
Yeah.
FINN: This picture started this
back and forth character comedy routines.
KEANE: Yeah.
FINN: It was something that we hadn't really been doing before.
GOLDBERG: I think this one opened the comedy doors
at Disney in a much larger way.
KEANE: Yeah, I mean, to actually go for big laughs,
and still try and get the heart, and the sincerity,
and the story was important, but...
Hello, Doctor. How are you?
No, no, no.
FINN: Or that Jasmine played along with it.
It just gave you a lot of opportunity.
Huh? What?
GOLDBERG: I have to say, too, it is hugely supported by the design.
It's supported by the background design, and by the character design.
You couldn't do the kind of material we're trying to do here,
and have overtly complex, hyper-realistic character designs,
because it doesn't work.
You don't want to laugh at it.
FINN: I gotta say, this is Tony Bancroft's stuff again on Iago.
- Very, very funny. - KEANE: It is.
DEJA: And Ron Husband did Jafar in this section.
My diamond in the rough.
That's him? That's the clown we've been waitin' for?
Let's have the guards extend him an invitation to the palace...
FINN: It was funny stuff, though.
This is broad animation.
- Oh, gosh. It was so cool. - KEANE: That was great.
Almost there.
KEANE: Some of Tony DeRosa's bit.
It's really nice. When you're supervising a character,
there's no way you can do it without a really strong right-hand man.
You can take the lion's share of work, and that was Tony for me.
GOLDBERG: He's a darn good animator.
Yeah, Tony's phenomenal.
KEANE: You just worked with Tony on the Looney Tunes feature.
GOLDBERG: Correct, yeah.
KEANE: He got an Annie Award nomination?
GOLDBERG: Yes, he did.
KEANE: Tony DeRosa did some great stuffin Pocahontas, too, on Nakoma.
GOLDBERG: Yeah, he did Nakoma,
and a lot of Pocahontas, too, here and there.
FINN: And Beast.
KEANE: Hail, Tony.
GOLDBERG: This is a real Disney scene to me.
You know, it's something that draws you into the world,
and the foreground and the background,
and all the levels are at play here.
KEANE: And I couldn't wait to animate that.
GOLDBERG: That was a beautiful scene.
It's got everything right in it. (LAUGHS)
KEANE: So, this little bit that Aladdin has got to do with this apple,
it's gotta look like he's done it a zillion times,
and I had been trying a different way.
I'd always kind of pop something on the underside of my elbow off.
I never did it over the shoulder like that with the backside of my elbow.
I couldn't do it, and I couldn't explain it to anybody how to do it.
Fortunately, they're animated characters,
they can do anything.
I ran away and I am not...
This place right here, he's being vulnerable.
He's revealing what he wants in life.
And so is Jasmine at this point.
These are moments that they...
You may not get to do all the squash and stretch and fun,
but there's a lot of depth to it that's really equally enjoyable.
Abu says, uh, that's not fair.
What?
- Oh, did he? - Yeah, of course.
And does Abu have anything else to say?
Well, uh, he wishes...
Rasoul Azadani's layouts are amazing, particularly in this sequence.
DEJA: It's so simple. It reads just so incredibly well,
the slight camera move.
KEANE: The shapes and the clouds,
and how everything's reflected in each other.
It really was the first
consistent-looking Disney animation in a long time.
And Rasoul was never isolated, like some other department,
where you'd just get backgrounds.
He's constantly working closely with us
in preparing and laying these scenes out,
setting them up so the characters would work well.
- Here's his namesake in the movie, too. - (ALL LAUGHING)
GOLDBERG: Animated by Phil Young,
who did all the guard characters, including Rasoul.
Unhand him...
DEJA: There was even a line of Jafar's that was taken out,
when he said the magic words to make the tiger appear in the desert.
It was supposed to be "Rasoul Azadani."
(ALL LAUGHING)
And we recorded that, and I animated it,
and then Jeffrey Katzenberg said,
"That's too much in-house humor. People won't get it." (LAUGHS)
So, we cut it.
FINN: Also, people were concerned because
we named the character after John...
John Musker and Ron Clements
named the character after him as a tribute to Rasoul.
We didn't realize the name means "Prophet,"
so people thought we were trying to make a joke.
DEJA: This is probably the section that I enjoyed the most
out of all of the Jafar scenes,
where Mark Henn in Florida again animated Jasmine.
The interplay between the two characters was enjoyable.
It was so well written, what they were saying,
and how they played off each other.
There was one tricky part.
Mark Henn had animated a scene completely alone with Jasmine,
and she was reacting to Jafar.
So, I had to place my animation of Jafar very accurately,
so it looks like she's reacting to him.
So, I had to work backwards in this case.
The scene's coming up right here.
This is all animated, and she was reacting to his hands on her shoulders.
But his hands were animated after the fact.
(COUGHING)
(GASPING)
GOLDBERG: A lot of the extra bits also got added
during a process in production called work turnover,
where we would take a storyboarded sequence and start staging it
in order to go into animation layout.
But at the same time, as well as the layout artists and the directors,
the supervising animators were there, and we'd all be guarding our turf
We'd all be throwing in extra bits. (LAUGHS)
"Here's a bit the Genie can do. Here's a bit Jafar can do."
"Here's a bit Abu can do."
And I think the movie got very rich from that kind of give and take
in those workbook turnover sessions,
John and Ron were very, very generous to input.
She was the princess.
KEANE: To animate the character where both arms are tied down...
And I can 't remember if it was Tony's animation in here.
I think it was.
GOLDBERG: I think there's some Dave Stephan in here, too.
KEANE: Yes, thank you. You don't have hands to gesture with.
You just have a head to move around.
- Loved that scene. - (GOLDBERG LAUGHING)
KEANE: Had him mimic the girl.
GOLDBERG: Great poses, look at this stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(ALL LAUGHING)
FINN: It's a great gag. KEANE: The voice of Abu...
GOLDBERG: Frank Welker,
who makes a living out of doing these terrific animal voices,
and character voices as well.
FINN: Almost any horse, monkey, dog, cat, you name it,
in a Hollywood movie has been overdubbed by Frank Welker.
DEJA: Here comes Jafar as the old beggar, animated by Kathy Zielinski.
And it was interesting.
He should look like Jafar, but not completely.
So, we're walking that fine line where even the audience wondered a little bit.
FINN: A lot of this sequence was storyboarded by Kevin Lima,
who was one of the directors on Tarzan.
And I remember distinctly, in his boards,
Whoever has the gold makes the rules.
- This drawing... - (ALL LAUGHING)
which Kathy realized beautifully.
You know, it was such a disgusting single drawing,
and it really plays as a moment.
But you know this is a good example of
doing something that is ugly,
but there's still appeal to it.
I mean, you're not revolted. You want to watch it.
Also, this was a film where, in the storyboards,
there was so much great material from Kevin and Burny
and from Ed Gombert.
A lot of the time, it was like you're just bringing it to life.
I know that was true for a lot of Iago.
There's a lot of Gombert's posing.
We just translated it verbatim from Ed Gombert's storyboards.
Touch nothing but the lamp.
KEANE: This was such a cool image.
First fetch me the lamp,
and then you shall have your reward.
Come on, Abu.
GOLDBERG: As I recall, that scene where the tiger says, "Proceed,"
we staged it that way because of the enormity of his mouth.
If you actually saw him do an O mouth on "pro"
and then opened it up for the E in "ceed," it would've just looked garish.
So, I said, "Let's just do eye sync on it."
- So you just do it with his eye attitudes. - KEANE: Hmm.
- You are so smart. - (GOLDBERG LAUGHS)
KEANE: That is a great... Gotta remember that.
This was the beginning of the carpet animation
Randy Cartwright did.
And that's that amazing mapping that they did on his artwork.
DEJA: Yeah, you could never do anything like that by hand.
FINN: Tina Price did the texture mapping of the design on the carpet.
And Randy's carpet is a textbook case
of how to define how a character is feeling, just through body position.
You know, he doesn't have a head.
He doesn't have a spine.
He doesn't have arms and legs,
and yet, you know how this character is feeling by the way he walks.
Look. This is a sneak. You know? (LAUGHS)
I mean, it's terrific.
KEANE: He's playful. FINN: Yeah.
- KEANE: He's like Randy himself.. - (ALL SNICKERING)
the most emotionally competent rectangle anybody's ever...
(ALL LAUGHING)
Abu, what are you, crazy?
FINN: It's a real nod to the silent actors,
you know, with Charlie Chaplin,
that you can communicate a lot of heart and entertainment
just by the way a character moves in silhouette and poses.
Randy went through and drew all of this by hand, the shapes, the acting.
And working with Tina, then,
who put the whole mapping of this complex design in
and pushing a CG shape in to fit into Randy's character drawings.
Maybe you can help us.
Hey! Whoa!
You see, we're trying to find this lamp.
KEANE: It's one of the ultimate challenges of animation,
that we're taught you should be able to turn the sound down on your scene,
and even if it's a dialogue scene, know exactly what's going on.
And having a pantomime character like the Carpet, and really Abu, too,
is always a lot of fun to watch.
It's one of the reasons why animation is so translatable across cultures,
and sometimes even time.
Amazing layouts here. These shapes are great.
GOLDBERG: Rasoul Azadani was always pushing for scale in his layouts.
He really got it in this one.
DEJA: Who was effects supervisor on the movie, do you remember?
KEANE: Yeah, Don Paul did the effects animation in this movie.
Don's an amazing effects animator.
And there's a great appropriateness to how effects are used,
and how lighting is used, when tones are used,
and more importantly, when they're not,
which is really amazing.
Some CG effects coming up here
that also have a lot of 2D mixed in, really successfully.
And at this time, because we knew there was computer,
sequences were beginning to be designed
knowing that you could move in and out of the sequence
- of the backgrounds. - FINN: Of the Z-plane, yeah.
KEANE: There's some computer lava effects with some 2D overlays.
DEJA: It's not a clash of the two mediums.
It really works as a unit.
FINN: They sync up pretty well. DEJA: Mm-hmm.
This was so scary, I remember.
You're just on that carpet yourself
- FINN: The audience went, wow. - Yeah.
GOLDBERG: This was one of the first of the real thrill ride sequences
in Disney films, really works great.
Abu!
FINN: This was a great gag here.
In fact, I know the layout artists looked at the film element
from Star Tours, the exhibit at Disneyland,
as a reference for this sequence.
DEJA: Didn't even know that. Sure feels like a ride.
KEANE: As a reference, but they didn't use it directly.
FINN: No, they didn't use it directly.
KEANE: When you say that, people say, "They just used it."
No, they didn't. They looked at it, and they improved it.
GOLDBERG: Now, if you'll notice on the effects animation,
even that has Hirschfeldian curlicues in it,
- like the wind going fast. - DEJA: Yeah.
- The sand... - GOLDBERG: The sand.
It's really designed all of a piece,
and I think that's one of the great successes of the film.
FINN: Right down to the clean up. Even the clean up had thick and thin.
For a while, they said, "Because we're digitizing our clean up now",
"we can't do that,"
and I remember Eric fighting hard and winning.
GOLDBERG: We did. FINN: And winning, yes, you can.
We got beautiful thick and thin lines on this picture.
This was a dramatic effect,
the tiger's head dissolving into the sand.
I remember seeing that in dailies, and just being awestruck.
It's roaring up there, and falling apart.
Here's some great stuff from Kathy.
GOLDBERG: The great thing about thick and thin is that first,
it looks like a lot of the classic cartoons because it replicates an ink line.
The other thing that's great about it
is that it has thickness in the middle of the line.
In other words, it tapers,
thin from one side, thick in the middle, and then tapers out thin again.
You can actually see the color in the line work much more clearly
than if it had been just a very even line.
Look at the Sultan's shoulder, for example.
KEANE: There was a lot of training going on
with the clean up staff doing that,
though you didn't have to work hard to convince them.
Bill Berg, who did the clean up of Aladdin
and many other characters I worked with,
loves the beauty of line, and the flow of line.
It gives the characters a weight on the screen.
FINN: Yeah, it's very difficult to do
an even line weight around a character,
and keep it looking alive.
It can be done, but it's very, very difficult.
They were worried about keeping line consistency.
Now, here is... Here we go.
We're shifting into tenth gear now.
GOLDBERG: Look at this beautiful effects work here.
Aaaaahhhhh!
Oy!
- And then it's ruined like that. - (ALL LAUGHING)
a crick in the neck.
Hang on a second.
Whoa! Whoa!
GOLDBERG: The scene coming up, where the Genie
is actually contemplating his belly
and pushes it up, and then it plops back down again,
I did that as a caricature of myself I'd put on a lot of weight.
All the pregnant mothers,
who had taken their older children, loved that scene.
They'd come up to me and say, "That's me.
"That's me in my eighth month." (LAUGHS)
KEANE: Well, the great thing is that,
as much of Robin Williams as there is in this movie, folks,
there is also pure Eric Goldberg across the board here.
a lot smaller than my last master.
Either that or I'm gettin' bigger.
Look at me from the side. Do I look different to you?
Wait a minute.
DEJA: This scene reminds me of a story.
He turned into Arnold Schwarzenegger,
way at the beginning of the movie.
I had no idea that the flare in the story would be like this.
I remember Kathy Bailey, who did the clean up for Jafar,
ran into my room and said, "Guess what they're doing?"
"They're having the Genie turn into Arnold Schwarzenegger."
And I said, "They're doing what? They can't do that."
So, I had no idea at the time we were going with this.
I saw the boards, and it dawned on me,
"This is where this movie's going. I get it."
And ixnay on the wishing for more wishes.
KEANE: Well, even the Groucho bit is painted in black and white. (LAUGHS)
FINN: Everything is possible with the Genie.
He really gives you complete freedom.
So why don't you just ruminate...
GOLDBERG: So, Friend Like Me
was the first sequence to be completed in Aladdin.
If you can see, the Genie has shorter ears.
It's a slightly earlier version of Aladdin
before we had actually settled on his final design.
You know, Bill Berg, Aladdin's clean up artist,
worked heroically to conform
my poor Aladdin drawings to the current model.
But because it was so wild,
I think we felt it was certainly more than acceptable,
even if there were a few variations.
Over the course of production, the Genie's ears got longer,
he got a little more defined but, basically, the character's here.
KEANE: I love the fact that these are all tableaus.
They are like illustrations in a way.
They're moving, but go into very clear images and poses that tell the story.
People think that he's moving all the time, he's moving a whole lot,
but in reality, the poses that you're hitting aren't that many.
Like, that attitude, he's dancing.
GOLDBERG: Yeah. FINN: It's never over-animated.
GOLDBERG: I call it the Name That Tune style of animation.
Name That Tune used to be an old game show
where you'd have to name a particular song
by hearing only about three notes.
"Well, I can name that tune in three notes, Bob."
So, I can name that scene in three notes, in three poses, Bob. (LAUGHS)
KEANE: You can name that attitude. GOLDBERG: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
FINN: Okay, that's pride.
That's fear. That's...
Well, to have a character walk out of his own mouth,
and then rip himself in half ..
DEJA: What I also like about this sequence
is the backgrounds were kept to a minimum, just color cards.
FINN: Yes, and... DEJA: So, everything reads so well.
FINN: And beautifully done color cards.
They have just the right amount of depth to them.
Color cards can be very easily screwed up. (LAUGHS)
GOLDBERG: Richard Vander Wende did the color keys for this sequence,
and he was so proud of it, 'cause it just went nuttier and nuttier,
and more and more stylized as the sequence continued.
KEANE: And it keeps building and building.
GOLDBERG: I think Dan Hansen did the layout on this scene,
the one where it just keeps pulling back and back.
FINN: That scene made me scream, when he was doing the windmill walk.
GOLDBERG: There's a little story about this applause sign here,
which is that when the film was in previews,
Jeffrey Katzenberg wanted all of the song moments to have applause.
He came back after one preview, and he said,
"Nobody's applauding at the end of the song, what can we do?"
So I stuck an applause sign on the back of the Genie's back,
and it stayed in the movie.
KEANE: I remember in our screening, everybody applauded at the studio.
I can't bring people back from the dead.
It's not a pretty picture. I don't like doing it.
Other than that, you got it.
- Hmm. - Oh!
Provisos?
GOLDBERG: Here comes the famous Taxi Driver scene,
where the Genie imitates Robert De Niro in Taxi Driver,
the "You talking to me?" scene.
I don't know, Abu. He probably can't even get us out of this cave.
Looks like we're gonna have to find a way out of here.
Excuse me?
Did you rub my lamp?
GOLDBERG: When we premiered it, Martin Scorsese,
the director of Taxi Driver, was in the audience, and he howled.
(CHUCKLES) He just thought it was great.
FINN: Wasn't there concern that people thought he was being too mean?
GOLDBERG: Yeah, but I think he goes right back to being amiable,
so I don't think it's a problem.
Keep your hands and arms inside the carpet.
We're...
Of course, one of the first Disney in jokes here,
"Keep your hands and arms inside the carpet,"
that Robin threw in for us.
If it weren't for all your years of loyal service...
DEJA: I just love this overstuffed palace, with these huge columns.
So nicely caricatured.
I assure you, Your Highness, it won't...
GOLDBERG: The trucking to the background,
that's an Ian Gooding background.
FINN: Just beautiful.
KEANE: Also, it's a nice contrast to go to this cold marble
after this hot sequence with the Genie.
At least some good will come of my being forced to marry.
When I am queen, I will have the power...
FINN: Is this Ken Duncan's animation on Jafar here?
DEJA: Yes, it is.
We had some fun with his mouth because he has a mouth
sort of like a mask would have.
There's no realism involved,
and you could invent your own mouth shapes, if you will.
FINN: It's pure 2D, yeah. I mean, the characters really...
(KEANE LAUGHING)
KEANE: Look at those. Those are great.
FINN: I tried to do what Duncan did with the monkey here,
and it didn't quite pay off.
I wasn't quite up to it.
DEJA: Double shadows?
GOLDBERG: Note, too, that the shadows aren't just gray, they're purple.
You know, they have color in them.
It all works with the color design in the movie.
Oh. Wait a minute. Jafar.
What if you were the chump husband?
What?
Okay, you marry...
FINN: This is the one place in Aladdin where Iago actually had an idea.
Most of the time he was executing orders,
but he sort of came up with an idea here.
I become the sultan.
FINN: By having great timing and dialogue for an animator,
it tells you where to go.
You can see the scene before it's even animated in your head.
Yaaah!
Kersplat!
KEANE: I think that was as loud as they'd let Gilbert Gottfried get,
- right there. - (GOLDBERG LAUGHS)
(BOTH LAUGH SINISTERLY)
KEANE: They're actually, even for all their differences, very similar.
Their inner personality is the same guy.
DEJA: They're still buddies. Partners in crime.
FINN: One's smooth, the other one's coarse, but they're both rotten guys.
GOLDBERG: Here we have the oasis scene.
The flight attendant animated by Raul Garcia,
and a lot of this animation by Dave Burgess
who did terrific work on the Genie.
They all did terrific work on the Genie.
This is Dave Burgess,
the upcoming cookbook scene is Dave Burgess.
FINN: Even that hand, when he makes the one.
GOLDBERG: This is Broose Johnson,
who always gave me more than I expected
in every single scene. (LAUGHS)
It was always pushed further.
Even just the way the sheep's butt goes up.
What would you wish for?
Me?
KEANE: Scott Weinger was the voice of Aladdin.
The voice of a character also tells you something about their design.
You draw their eyes different, the eyebrows different.
It's not like you can just stick any voice to a face.
And Scott had this really nice young voice,
but at the same time there was a strength of character to it.
There's a weight to the voice.
Things like that are hard to put into words,
but they affect your drawing.
GOLDBERG: The famous Pinocchio head scene.
This came from a riff that Robin did on the stage.
He went, "Uh-huh, yeah, right." Boo-oop!
And that, boo-oop, I had known from his routines,
was Pinocchio's nose growing.
FINN: He does a gesture, right? He sticks his finger to his nose
and then draws it out about two feet in front of his face.
GOLDBERG: Exactly, but we were only hearing the audio,
and Ron didn't know what it was,
and John kind of knew what it was, I'm not sure.
And I said, "Look, Disney owns the character."
(LAUGHS) "Let's use this."
"Let's just go ahead and make it Pinocchio,"
"and drop the other shoe."
I don't think the scene would've gotten as big a laugh
if we had compromised on what Pinocchio looked like in that scene.
It just had to be exactly Pinocchio.
Fortunately, the company owned the rights to the character,
so there you go.
FINN: It says a lot about the movie, though,
because the Genie knows what Walt Disney's Pinocchio looks like.
He exists in no times, or he exists in all time spaces
and he exists in all places,
so, he can reference things the other characters don't know about.
KEANE: That's funny. It's about rules.
What are the rules to the world you've created?
It's like, well, the tiger can't talk, because that wouldn't be believable.
- But you could stick in Pinocchio. - (GOLDBERG LAUGHS)
A Disney character from the past, and that's okay.
GOLDBERG: It's very true, but with the Genie,
I think everyone considered he could travel time and space fairly easily.
Although somehow he seems to have gotten lodged pretty well in the 1960s.
- Don't ask me why. - (ALL LAUGHING)
KEANE: That was an awesome scene.
There was controversy over things like Arsenio.
And you know, God bless Musker and Clements,
'cause they said, "It's just gonna be funny."
"Some people won't know what it is, and years from now people may forget,"
"but it just looks funny."
"If it looks funny, we're doing it."
GOLDBERG: Mike Show did that camel transformation,
and I remember the story went that Ron Clements asked him,
"Did you enjoy that squashy stretchy scene?" And he said, "Yes."
And Ron said, "Good, because you probably won't have one like it"
- "for the next several pictures." - (ALL LAUGHING)
GOLDBERG: Squash and stretch is the technique that animators employ
to give fluidity and elasticity to their characters.
Meaning that everything works organically within a character.
So if his mouth was open wide,
his facial muscles and the rest of his head would stretch,
except for the cranium, which is hard bone.
And it would squash back up again if he was taking an impact
or if his mouth were making a consonant.
And that kind of play of squash and stretch
gives your character that kind of flexibility onscreen.
"...the sultan shall choose for her."
But Jasmine hated...
FINN: This is Brian Ferguson's first animation.
Brian is a phenomenal animator, and he did Iago in this sequence.
He is totally crazy.
He's one of the most insanely inventive animators I've ever worked with.
"...must then be wed to..."
DEJA: Yet when you meet him and talk to him, he's this nice, polite guy.
But once he hits that drawing board, all his crazy and zaniness comes out.
FINN: It's true.
me.
He's Jekyll and Hyde.
He's such a sweet guy and he does the zaniest animation.
Yes. Desperate measures.
You will order the princess to marry me.
David Pruiksma's stuff on the Sultan is nice.
It's a good, solid squash and stretch, and yet, really a sincere character, too.
The princess will marry me.
I love his little hands and little feet.
GOLDBERG: Well, he walks and runs like a happy little kid,
- which is a great... - DEJA: Contrast.
piece to his character.
(CHUCKLING)
Jafar, you must come and see this.
GOLDBERG: Tom Sito animated most of the Prince Ali Genie
and the bandleader Genie in this sequence.
Ken Duncan animated the harem girls.
This is all Tom Sito's stuff.
Great-looking miscellaneous characters. They're fun.
FINN: It's really difficult to do crowds.
KEANE: Yes.
FINN: Shots where you can see the sky and you're seeing confetti
makes it a little easier.
GOLDBERG: It's staged cleverly, though.
The money shots are the ones which have a lot of characters in them.
But most of these are single or two-character shots.
You just convince the audience that, yes, you're watching a crowd.
You just gotta keep returning to it every once in a while.
FINN: That was Tony Bancroft's first Iago scene,
and it was the first color scene we got. A lot of stills of that.
Great gags here. This was Dave Burgess?
GOLDBERG: This is Dave Burgess, all this stuff right here.
KEANE: The lyrics in this song are amazing.
There's stuff that you can't even keep up with.
There's the part where it says the servants are "lousy with loyalty."
It's just hilarious.
Fabulous, Harry. I love the feathers.
GOLDBERG: This is my idea of a joke on top of a joke,
because not only did Robin riff
the Thanksgiving Day Parade commentators,
but we put them in winter clothing
and had steam coming out of their mouths as well. (LAUGHS)
And they're in the middle of the desert.
So it's just there if anybody catches it, you know.
FINN: I felt like I was watching the Rose Bowl Parade.
- He's got 95 white Persian monkeys - He's got the monkeys
- Let's see the monkeys - And to view them he charges no fee
He's generous So generous
FINN: When the Genie turns into a woman,
Robin Williams does this great Ethel Merman-like sound,
- which is hilarious. - (GOLDBERG LAUGHS)
The gags are funny. Who did the animation on the Genie?
The Ethel Merman Genie was also Dave Burgess.
FINN: Nice, nice stuff.
DEJA: And this is Nik Ranieri's Jafar coming up.
One of his impressive drawings.
FINN: Here's a great limited animation gag
that ends this, when they're behind the door.
FINN: There you go. GOLDBERG: Mm-hmm.
GOLDBERG: Tom Sito did that dance scene really nice.
FINN: Charles Vollmer.
Larry White did all these animals.
I was in the same office with Larry,
and he drew zillions of animals and birds.
He was just cranking away for weeks.
I was like, "God, Larry, this is amazing stuff you're doing."
And he would just stare at me.
I had one little bird to draw, and he'd just stare at me across the room.
(GOLDBERG LAUGHS)
KEANE: One of the unsung heroes, yeah.
FINN: Yeah, Larry's a phenomenal guy.
He was a great teacher at CalArts for a couple of years.
Many people working in animation now learned their trade from him.
I'm delighted to meet you.
This is my royal vizier, Jafar. He's delighted, too.
DEJA: There's Nik again, Nik Ranieri. Limited animation, but very poignant.
Whatever.
It's so much of a self-portrait of Nik, too.
- (GOLDBERG LAUGHS) - DEJA: It's incredible how much
you can see when the animator puts himself into the part.
The gestures become the animator's gestures, the facial expressions.
It's funny how that happens.
KEANE: My favorite scene of Nik's at the end of this sequence
is him going, "It's time to say goodbye to Prince Abooboo."
(ALL LAUGHING)
It hardly moves, but it's really nice.
FINN: Nice funny take from Rick there, I think.
This Iago here is Brian Ferguson again.
As a supervisor in this picture, I had it easy
'cause he was in so few scenes that I could supervise individual animators
and let them do their own sequences
and just make sure he was on model and the timing was correct.
- Great gag. Unbelievable. - (ALL LAUGHING)
Then he put little Sultans flying around his head.
Mark Hester, who's in editorial, did the, "Have a cracker."
(ALL LAUGHING)
FINN: Everybody was just trying to top and add stuff across the board.
In effects, in editorial, everywhere.
This is a very impressive youth.
And a prince besides.
(WHISPERS) If we're lucky...
GOLDBERG: I remember Gilbert Gottfried's
mantra on this film was,
"When in doubt, hurt the bird."
- It seemed to be a good formula. - (ALL LAUGHING)
Oh, excellent judge. Yeah, sure. Not!
FINN: The "not" was controversial,
'cause it was right out of Wayne's World.
KEANE: It was a big laugh, though. FINN: Yeah, it was.
GOLDBERG: I think we all looked at this kind of topicality
in the same way Warner Brothers' cartoons had topicality.
There would be a caricature of Clark Gable.
There would be a caricature of Greta Garbo.
And they're still running those cartoons.
FINN: When we were kids, we didn't know who Eddie Cantor was,
- but if it was funny, it was funny. - GOLDBERG: Yeah.
FINN: Great scene. Look how they react to her.
- They're very embarrassed. - (ALL LAUGHING)
KEANE: I love that Aladdin kind of hits his leg there, just a little nervous.
They're all in trouble 'cause they were talking about her behind her back.
That got huge laughs in dailies because it was amazing to see
three characters with very opposite personalities
all reacting the same way.
"Oops, busted."
ALADDIN: (SIGHS) What am I gonna do?
Jasmine won't even let me talk to her.
DEJA: I love that. The elephant and the banana.
What a great idea.
So move.
GOLDBERG: Nice animation by Joe Haidar here, in the chess scene.
Was this the scene including Rodney Dangerfield's cameo?
- Genie, I need help. - All right, Sparky, here's the deal.
And Jack Nicholson, based on a caricature by John Musker.
I was having trouble with the Jack Nicholson.
John pushed it further and we got the Jack out of it.
KEANE: It's nice having Musker as a caricaturist
- by your side on this thing. - GOLDBERG: Oh, yes, absolutely.
KEANE: Was this the segment where the Genie turned into John Wayne?
GOLDBERG: Yes, he did at one time.
FINN I always missed that. That was funny.
A lot of stuff got cut, not for lack of working, just time.
There wasn't enough time to get it all in.
There are some I still remember and expect to be there that aren't.
Like a prince.
There he is, being very sincere again.
GOLDBERG: I'll take a little bit of credit for the staging there,
which I kind of like,
which is, we didn't have to see Aladdin exit on the carpet.
All you had to see was the sad Genie's expression
and then the shadow cast over his face and the head turn around.
- KEANE: Eric, I appreciate that. - (ALL LAUGHING)
KEANE: We had 2, 700 feet of this character to do
and needed every helping hand we could get.
- JASMINE: Just leave me alone. - Down, kitty.
So, how's our little beau doing?
FINN: He cuts his head off, and he doesn't have one.
That is clarity.
That is masterful animation when you can read that.
GOLDBERG: Now, there's some beautiful work
here between Jasmine and Aladdin.
met in the marketplace.
The marketplace?
KEANE: Yeah, this was just...
GOLDBERG: Clem and Mark at the top of their form.
FINN: On opposite sides of the country, and making it look so effortless.
It's just awesome.
KEANE: But with this cool little bee, this Genie buzzing around.
They were my favorite scenes.
To have a head that big on your paper as you're drawing it, flipping it.
I mean, the pencil that I use is a big thick lead pencil.
It actually worked when I was doing something that size.
- It made sense. - (GOLDBERG LAUGHS)
KEANE: All the other times it doesn't make sense.
Finally, it paid off.
Raul Garcia animated all of the Genie Bee scenes.
He really wanted those,
and I tried to cast the animators in the scenes they really wanted.
FINN: There are no "B" scenes.
- There are only A scenes, I'm sorry. - (KEANE LAUGHS)
And every other stuffed shirt...
KEANE: You wanna use every prop you've got,
including that little feather there on top.
Everything you can.
GOLDBERG: One little note here, one thing I love about this film
is production value where it needs it and nowhere else,
like how the effects animators rendered the gemstone
in the middle of Aladdin and Jasmine's headpieces.
It has a beautiful blur to it, and a highlight.
It's just enough to make it rich without overdoing it or overstating it.
You don't have to have it anywhere else on the character.
FINN: In the long shots, there's no shadows.
As soon as the character's face fills the screen, there's shadow.
KEANE: Mm-hmm.
FINN: The audience doesn't notice it because they're flowing right along.
Sometimes when you bombard the audience
with effects in every scene,
it just becomes tedious and then you have nowhere to go.
KEANE: It's important for setup.
This scene is an important setup, where that hand's sticking out there.
We had to make it exactly the same as the very end scene in the picture.
FINN: This was a terrific song.
This was actually one of the things that stayed,
even from the original first boarding pass,
that they would have this magic carpet ride.
(ALADDIN SINGING) Tell me, Princess
KEANE: Brad Kane sang the song,
but you just assume that Scott Weinger is singing.
The voice qualities are very close.
And Burny Mattinson did the storyboards on this.
GOLDBERG: Francis Glebas did some development work, too,
if I'm not mistaken.
And aside from the song and aside from the animation,
or should I say, along with it,
the layout is the star as well in this sequence.
Beautiful work by Rasoul and his crew to really make you feel airborne.
There's not too many sequences in Disney films that work as well that way.
I recall the scene in Peter Pan when they're first flying over London
and you see the great depth below them.
And I think Rasoul has gotten some of the same qualities in this sequence.
DEJA: When I saw this sequence the first time in rough animation,
I talked to Ron and John and I thought, "Aren't they flying a little fast?"
The song was a ballad.
Wouldn't it be nicer to slow down a little bit?
But he really wanted to show the exuberance
of what it means to be in love.
So I can certainly see that point of view.
KEANE: Lea Salonga sang the Jasmine part here.
Mark Henn animated both of those characters.
This is the part where it worked pretty good
to have one guy in Florida hitting both characters
until they sit down on the top of the roof
Then we started working bicoastal again.
It's fun that they cruised all over the world, too.
It's just such a great fanciful idea.
- And here's where she knows. - FINN: And there's the little apple bump.
KEANE: "I know who you are."
GOLDBERG: She started to suspect with that hand gesture,
and then the apple kind of clinched it.
KEANE: Coming up is one of my favorite little moments
between Jasmine and Aladdin.
It's just very subtle little stuff where they're sitting next to each other
and Aladdin is putting on this big show.
They're really becoming comfortable with each other.
She suspects who he is, and there's this little bump she does
with her shoulders and her hips against him, and stuff like that.
It's like a... It's just pure gold.
Because they prove that they're not cartoon characters,
they're real people.
- That I wouldn't figure it out? - No.
I mean, I hoped you wouldn't. No, that's not what I meant.
Who are you? Tell me the truth.
FINN: Really nice subtle stuff here.
And the effects just highlight it.
It makes it feel lavish that they're at this extravagant setting,
and it's just a little colored gel over them, flashing on and off.
Great expressions where he's losing himself
I always loved that he'll just, for a few frames,
be struggling with his facade there.
GOLDBERG: Nice caught-in-a-lie animation.
royalty going out into the city in disguise...
KEANE: This is that little thing
back and forth between the two of them.
Not that strange.
(FINN LAUGHS)
Everybody's lived that moment.
(GOLDBERG LAUGHS)
FINN: We used live action reference on some of these characters,
but we don't trace the live action.
We use it as a study
between pulling experiences from your own life
and it's made the character better.
Tony Fucile is coming up with this wonderful little kiss
that he brought between both.
- And this darting back and... - KEANE: Yeah, the eyes?
FINN: The eyes, yeah.
GOLDBERG: We all thought this was the hottest kiss
- ever animated on a Disney movie. - (ALL LAUGHING)
FINN: And he's knocked out.
GOLDBERG: One thing that was also nice about that sequence
was counterpointing everything that's going on
with Randy Cartwright's carpet.
You know, just punctuating.
Like, "Aladdin, you're making a wrong turn. Don't say that."
"That sounds dumb. She's gonna tell it's a lie."
(MUFFLED) Abu. Abu.
Hold him.
FINN: Very Far Side looking gag during a serious moment.
Here they are.
GOLDBERG: The movie made great use of lighting for emotional content,
and in that scene in particular, with the backlighting of Jafar.
FINN: And going to black behind Aladdin as he passes out,
that was pretty unique.
KEANE: Some great Dave Stephan stuff, where he's going down.
And then the Genie stuff, some of this is Broose Johnson, right?
GOLDBERG: Yes, the submarine is Broose Johnson
and the, "I can't get you out of there until you make a wish"
is Dave Burgess.
KEANE: Story-wise this was really a tough thing,
trying to get the lamp next to his hand and working with layout,
getting on a little hill just enough to slide it down.
FINN: His arms are confined again. That's a hard thing to animate.
To make it believable, so the audience wouldn't go,
"Come on, that wouldn't happen."
I'll take that as a yes. (IMITATING ALARM)
GOLDBERG: This is Broose Johnson here.
The detached head is...
FINN: It's great the way the design can inform
something like the upshot on the water's surface.
Because everyone was certain
about the design we were working on, it was easy.
GOLDBERG: This is Dave Burgess even in the sincere moments, too.
With a line we weren't sure would stay in the movie,
"Not that I want to pick out curtains or anything."
Not that I wanna pick out curtains or anything.
It stayed in the movie and I loved that what Robin brought to the table
is not letting anything get quite too sentimental.
You buy the sincere moment,
and then just a little puncture with the humor, and then you move on.
If you have a cartoony design for a character,
as far as the style of animation is concerned,
it actually gives you plenty of range to either play it broadly,
or play it subtly.
You can take the Genie's design
and shrink it down to minimal movement,
and still get the subtlety out of the character that you need.
But the converse isn't necessarily true.
If you have a very realistically designed character,
it's almost impossible to get a sincere laugh out of it, out of a drawing.
KEANE: Having trod down some of that road,
the tough thing is you get to the point where they're gonna inhibit you on it,
and the characters are not allowed to be
as zany as a real comic actor in a real frame.
Well, that's it. We're dead. Forget it.
Just dig a grave for both of us. We're dead.
Arrest Jafar...
KEANE: (CHUCKLES) "Dig a grave." That's Gilbert ad-libbing again.
FINN: You know, Iago doesn't really look like Gilbert Gottfried looks.
He looks like Gilbert sounds.
Um, one of the things Gilbert does a lot
is he closes his eyes during his comedy a lot,
and I didn't want to do that.
But he does have very, very big teeth.
KEANE: We used two actors, Robb Willoughby and, Robina Ritchie,
for studying live action.
It's one of the things you do when you got a crew that large.
To get a cohesiveness in the performance together,
basing your performance on the study of a couple actors in common helps.
But you two will be wed at once.
FINN: Did they shoot it scene for scene,
or was it just sort of done in a master?
KEANE: We shot it scene by scene.
A big chunk of time spent doing that, actually, throughout the production.
FINN: They shot those over at, uh...
KEANE: Imagineering.
Yeah.
IAGO: We gotta get outta here. I gotta start packing.
KEANE: Gilbert was ad-libbing like crazy here.
Bring the guns, the weapons, the knives, and how about this picture?
I think I'm making a weird face in it.
(LAUGHING MANIACALLY)
KEANE: That ad-lib made Robin Williams laugh,
which was very satisfying. (LAUGHS)
The picture.
GOLDBERG: If you could make the comedians laugh,
- that was always a plus. - (LAUGHTER)
FINN: Everybody's trying to top each other.
And Jafar here is...
DEJA: Nik Ranieri. FINN: Nik, okay.
DEJA: You can tell, it's a self-portrait.
FINN: I don't know how I put that out of my head.
Me and Nik again.
KEANE: You and Nik were Cogsworth and Lumiere as well.
FINN: Yeah.
DEJA: Nik has a very interesting way of timing his characters.
He holds certain things still
and then just has parts of the body being animated,
just to get a point across.
A very interesting style of animation.
Aladdin, you've just won the heart of the princess.
What are you gonna do next?
FINN: They were afraid the temptation would be, "I'm going to Disneyland."
GOLDBERG: Yeah, well. (CHUCKLES) FINN: And that was the point.
- (ALL LAUGH) - GOLDBERG: All that stuff
was animated by Broose Johnson.
And this is a beautiful scene.
The face he squishes Aladdin into,
and the face he makes is all Broose Johnson.
It's just great stuff.
Reje Bourdages did a lot of the quiet stuff
of the Genie reacting to Aladdin telling him this news.
This is all Reje Bourdages.
FINN: And there's where the Genie used to break into Walter Cronkite.
(LAUGHTER)
(IMITATES WALTER CRONKITE) "You would snatch victory"
"from the jaws of defeat."
- I still expect that. - KEANE: I miss that.
FINN: Again, it just was a time thing. The scene had to move on.
But it was always so funny.
(IMITATES GENIE) "You've snatched victory from the jaws of defeat."
KEANE: You could probably make a five-hour marathon
out of the stuff ad-libbed for this movie.
GOLDBERG: You probably could.
FINN: These were nice. Teresa Martin did
these cutaways to, uh, the carpet and the elephant,
and they were really, really effective scenes
in their emotional reactions to Aladdin.
She was, uh, coming out of clean up,
and really impressed everybody with these scenes.
GOLDBERG: They're great and, in the film's context they're great, too,
because they really help support
what an audience member should be feeling.
What a counterpoint to what Aladdin is saying.
FINN: Coming up is a scene between Iago and a flamingo that, again,
Ed Gombert's boarding was so clear, it was very easy for me to animate this.
But I got it in my head I could do it better,
and I tried to do it over the weekend.
Ron said, "Go back to your first take." (LAUGHS)
(WICKED LAUGHTER)
(GOOFY CHUCKLE)
The flamingo's laugh there is actually mine, too.
(GOLDBERG LAUGHING)
Mark Hester asked me to come in and record that,
and they used it for some reason.
(IMITATES JAFAR) "Excellent work, Iago."
Ah, go on.
"No, really. On a scale of one to 10, you are an 11 ."
KEANE: There, he's trying to out-mimic the Genie,
- but he's not doing a very good job. - (LAUGHTER)
KEANE: It got a great reaction at screenings, though.
my daughter has finally chosen a suitor.
GOLDBERG: Coming up, some massive crowd scenes
that work very, very well.
FINN: Well, didn't they take...
'Cause Reje did a little square of about 10 people
and then they multiplied it and shot it out of focus.
Again, that was a very innovative thing at the time.
GOLDBERG: There we go. FINN: Use of CG.
KEANE: There is no way anybody would hand draw that. (CHUCKLES)
FINN: And even the turbulence they put into that second shot,
um, was sort of an early CG effect.
You know, Al, I'm getting really...
I don't think you're him. Tonight, the part of Al
will be played by a tall, dark and sinister ugly man.
- GOLDBERG: Great Robin riff there. - (LAUGHTER)
Genie, grant me my first wish.
DEJA: That's Ken Duncan.
FINN: Yeah, from this point on, I start to lose track of who's doing Iago.
Some of it's me, some of it's Tom, some of it's Tony.
It's all over the globe at that point.
KEANE: And so much, even as the big climactic ending
is racing towards the end of the film,
the animators are racing towards the end of their time to animate it.
(LAUGHTER)
DEJA: That's right. FINN: Yeah. Funny how that works.
DEJA: It's funny how you have the first half of the movie,
oh, done in about eight months,
and just a few months left for the other half
FINN: (LAUGHS) For the second half, yeah.
DEJA: Every movie's like that.
GOLDBERG: I remember Tony Fucile animated that little Aladdin reaction,
looking up from his hat.
And the reason I recall it is 'cause I liked it,
and for you single frame geeks out there,
there's a smear drawing on Aladdin's face for one frame...
- (LAUGHTER) - as he's lifting it up.
I got a new master now.
Jafar, I order you to stop.
DEJA: (LAUGHING) I like his little chest hair.
My order.
FINN: (CHUCKLING) Iago somehow got a little turban, too, which is silly.
Randy Cartwright came up with that gag
that the Sultan would start to bow to him out of sheer cowardice.
(ALL LAUGHING)
KEANE: He almost just started following orders from the get-go.
GOLDBERG: I remember, Andreas, you liked this scene
because you always wanted Jafar to have a song in the movie.
- (LAUGHS) He finally gets one here. - DEJA: That's right.
FINN: Wait, this was also where Why Me was,
which was a fantastic song.
I still love that song.
DEJA: Yeah. There were a few versions of this sequence.
And then, this was the final, of course.
I like Jafar's costume in this. I thought he looked like a spider.
Everything was spiky here, his shoulders and his hat.
Everything was drawn sharper.
GOLDBERG: I wouldn't wanna meet up in an alley
- with those shoulders. - (ALL LAUGH)
(SINGING) Read my lips And come to grips with reality
KEANE: And Tim Rice worked a little bit of, uh...
"Read my lips" had become George Bush's...
DEJA: The catchphrase of the year. KEANE: Yeah.
to your precious Prince Ali
DEJA: And, of course, he's being very hammy.
He's being the performer on stage,
having fun with humiliating these people and torturing them.
FINN: Why Me was, I think, a more extended song,
so they wound up not using it.
It couldn't sustain itself with the moment,
so this is more of a reprise.
But it was a phenomenal song.
Jonathan's vocal was amazing.
We all worked on boarding it and doing gags on it,
but when it screened, the audience just wanted to move on.
It is hard to fit songs late into the run of one of these pictures.
DEJA: Without feeling like it's tacked in there.
FINN: Yeah.
Pinocchio has an interesting song structure
because there's, uh, only five songs in the movie
and they're all in the first half
There's no songs in the second half, except for, uh, the reprise of
When You Wish Upon a Star at the end.
There it is again, some early CG stuff on that tunnel.
(WIND HOWLING)
(SHIVERING)
This happens so fast.
I remember wondering if people would get
that he was thrown to the edge of the world and had to get back,
but it worked.
KEANE: Barefoot, too. FINN: Yeah. (LAUGHS)
KEANE: Oh, man, I always thought,
"This had gotta be hurting his hands and feet."
Poor Abu.
DEJA: He's worried about Abu.
He's just a nice guy.
KEANE: He messed up, but he's gonna make it all right.
FINN: I love this whole story.
It sets up such impossible situations.
I mean, there's no way he's gonna get there in time,
but he's trying anyway.
DEJA: That's why it's perfect for animation.
FINN: And then the next most impossible situation,
besides the fact that he's been thrown to the other end of the world
and has to get back.
He's in Antarctica or something.
Now you're gonna squash him with this big rolling deal.
Fortunately, there's a window just in the right place.
GOLDBERG: It's kind of a Buster Keaton gag.
Like Sherlock Jr., or Steamboat Bill, Jr.,
when the house falls over. Bang. (CACKLING)
FINN: I love there's a cookie cutter shape of the window there, too.
KEANE: "Yeah, I survived. Now, how am I going to get out of here?"
Whoop!
This is one of Ed Gombert's gags, where the frozen monkey passes out.
He can't believe they survived.
IAGO: Puppet ruler want a cracker?
- (ALL LAUGHING) - FINN: This is Brian Ferguson's stuff,
I know that.
And paying off that gag with the crackers.
And I get to feed crackers down his throat.
(LAUGHING) I think that was a post-dubbed groan from Gilbert there.
- This is Nik's stuff, right, "Pussycat"? - DEJA: This is my Jafar.
FINN: Oh, it is? I'm sorry. DEJA: Yeah, yeah.
FINN: "Pussycat."
What do you say, my dear?
Why, with you as my queen...
DEJA: And then she throws the wine at him.
I'll teach you some respect.
KEANE: I like the way he puts his knee on the chair.
(GOLDBERG CHUCKLES)
I have decided to make my final wish.
GOLDBERG: A lot of this is Reje Bourdages' Genie
including the reprise of William F. Buckley, Jr.
Ah, Master, there are a few addendas, some quid pro quos...
FINN: Some people didn't know who Buckley was.
Even when you told them, they didn't.
GOLDBERG: Nik Ranieri wanted to do at least one scene of the Genie,
so I gave him this scene.
FINN: And this is... Is it the cash register?
GOLDBERG: And this scene.
(ALL LAUGHING)
FINN: Great, yeah, that's...
I remember there was something Nik did here.
It was the cash register.
I love the stuff you do with the hands, Andreas, all the way through.
Hands are not easy to draw, and you've got bones in Jafar's fingers.
DEJA: They're kind of stylized, you know. They are weird-looking.
Very, yeah.
KEANE: All the way through, I've been impressed with the style.
GOLDBERG: Raul Garcia's stuff.
I love the Jafar head joke, and Raul did it really well.
FINN: It got huge laughs to see him do that, and call him "Señor Psychopath."
We're not even sure what it was a reference to, but it just sounded right.
I didn't know if it was, he was saying it in Spanish,
or was it a senior citizen, or what?
GOLDBERG: Robin had all sorts of epithets.
We just chose the one that broke us up, that's all.
FINN: It was just funny.
GOLDBERG: He had a million different names for Jafar then.
FINN: Ellen Woodbury did Iago and Abu together fighting here,
I remember that.
Ellen did the animation on Zazu in Lion King
and Pegasus in Hercules.
KEANE: There was quite a discussion about if she could really kiss him.
- Should we go that far? - FINN: Yeah.
KEANE: It felt right. It was the ultimate sacrifice on her part.
FINN: Yeah, it wasn't a betrayal.
She was doing it for the good side.
Get the lamp.
FINN: Zielinski did the cobra stuff that's coming up.
- Who was doing Jafar? - DEJA: Jafar is a mix of everybody,
because we had to get the movie done.
FINN: This was very late in the movie and late in the production, too.
DEJA: But this was also a chance to get a little bit more physical with Jafar,
because in many scenes, he was withheld.
So, it was time to show him fighting.
GOLDBERG: I had a gag here, but they cut it out.
It was the Genie looking at the carpet, going, "Nice threads, dude."
(ALL CHUCKLE)
But it just wasn't appropriate for the moment.
FINN: Didn't the Genie turn into a cheerleader, too?
GOLDBERG: Yeah, he will. FINN: So he does do that.
you cowardly snake?
KEANE: This was Kathy Zielinski's stuff here.
DEJA: Really scary-looking.
you'd like to see how snakelike I can be.
KEANE: The transformation he makes. FINN: That's cool.
The scale really well pulled off again. And simply, too.
GOLDBERG: Look at the design on the fire, too.
Again, everything in the movie supports the overall design.
I think some of this cobra's also Raul Garcia, too.
- FINN: There we go. You break it out. - (ALL CHUCKLE)
GOLDBERG: And Joe Haidar's cheerleaders.
FINN: And he was also gonna do a color commentary
from a sport's desk, too, during this fight.
We talked about it, but it didn't make it into this.
GOLDBERG: Yeah, we recorded all of it, um,
but again, it felt like it was just gonna take a left turn
too much in the drama of the moment.
FINN: Yeah. It was always a balance.
It was great that we were pushed to get gags in
where we'd never put them before,
but then it did come down to what was important for the moment.
(LAUGHTER)
KEANE: And a lot to Jeffrey Katzenberg's credit.
He was constantly pulling us together to make those moments better.
FINN: Yeah, from Little Mermaid on.
That whole thing where he had Sebastian do that big Tex Avery take
during their kiss, we thought was blasphemy.
But the audience wanted a laugh and a sincere moment there.
DEJA: It was important to learn that.
KEANE: You can sometimes do both. Not always.
GOLDBERG: Um, Joe Haidar animated this stuff here
where he's saying, "The kid's crazy."
And I coached him by saying,
"Take a look at Diane Keaton in Annie Hall,
"doing her 'la-Di-da' moment." (LAUGHING)
"La-Di-da," shaking your head.
All right, your wish is my command. Way to go, Al.
DEJA: I had originally been a little bit afraid
to think the cobra should move very fast.
Losing a sense of weight, it being so big,
- but it has to strike like a cobra. - FINN: Yeah.
DEJA: It had to, and I think it worked out in the end.
FINN: I love the pacing, the timing of that. It's frightening.
GOLDBERG: In one of those group story meetings we all had,
they already had the concept that he was going to get sucked into the lamp,
but I remember Tom Sito put the cherry on it when he said,
"Phenomenal cosmic power, itty-bitty living space,"
just as the little cherry on top at the end.
(ALL LAUGHING)
ALADDIN: Phenomenal cosmic powers...
You're the genie. I don't want...
Itty bitty living space.
- DEJA: And Will can go home. - (ALL LAUGHING)
FINN: Ah, yeah, that does it. Thank you. Good night, everybody.
- Ahh! - (MEOWS)
DEJA: What an exuberant film this is. KEANE: Yeah.
IAGO: Shut up, you moron.
(HEARTY LAUGHTER)
FINN: Doesn't even need animation.
Gilbert Gottfried gets laughs doing anything.
GOLDBERG: I like that scene. That was Gilda Palinginis,
a big windup and then a little "tink."
(ALL LAUGHING)
FINN: Story-wise, this is kind of a Gilbert and Sullivan ending,
where the king just says, "We'll just abolish that law."
We should've just done that in the first act.
We just needed it for the movie, that's all.
Yeah, that's true.
I love you.
KEANE: Here's the Genie, very moved again.
FINN: He has a great range, the Genie.
He's funny and sincere.
GOLDBERG: That's the nice thing about sidekick characters.
They actually have to cover a lot of emotional range.
People expect them to be funny, but they have to be sincere, too.
KEANE: Yeah, yeah.
GOLDBERG: I do remember Robin getting a laugh on that scene,
probably because it sounded like everybody's Jewish mom.
"You're not gonna find another one like her."
(LAUGHTER)
I understand.
Genie, I wish for your freedom.
KEANE: And this whole sequence was the last stuffin production, wasn't it?
GOLDBERG: Yeah, this was pretty late in.
FINN: Yeah.
GOLDBERG: And these were some of the toughest scenes to animate,
because you have to be sincere about it.
KEANE: I'm getting chills. This is what we were waiting for, for him to be free.
GOLDBERG: Tom Sito animated the transformation,
and then I animated the realization here.
FINN: So nice.
The stuff that goes on
under the surface of the story is really good.
It wouldn't have worked without it.
KEANE: Yeah.
The stuff of Aladdin having to make up for his mistakes,
and his lack of faith in himself and all that was really important.
Originally, the story was just like the book.
It was sort of about greed,
but it really turned into a story about a character learning who he is
and growing up, which I think was great.
GOLDBERG: I remember in story sessions,
we lengthened this sequence further and further.
We felt it was very important to make a moment out of the fact
that the Genie and Aladdin were separating.
- They'd spent a lot of time together. - KEANE: Yeah.
GOLDBERG: And they cared for one another.
KEANE: It's like the Wizard Of Oz. They're gonna say goodbye.
You let the audience say goodbye to those characters
at the same time they say goodbye to each other.
Him. I choose...
I choose you...
KEANE: That looks great.
"And, finally, I can choose you because you're the real you."
FINN: "You're not faking it anymore." KEANE: Yeah.
GOLDBERG: Okay, for those Disney freaks out there,
this is a joke on top of a joke.
The Goofy hat gets a laugh,
but, in fact, it's also the way Robin Williams was dressed
in the live action animation film
that was part of the Disney Animation Tour
down at Disney MGM, Florida, Back to Neverland.
Uh, he was dressed in a loud Hawaiian shirt.
FINN: As a tourist.
GOLDBERG: With the Goofy hat and the shorts.
They just figured for anybody who's watching carefully.
FINN: They were gonna come out of this and go back to the peddler,
and reveal he was the Genie,
but the audience was already applauding.
They were full and they said, "Great. Thank you."
(CHUCKLING) And so there was no point.
DEJA: Except one more surprise. FINN: Right.
KEANE: Mark Henn had a great kiss, there at the end.
FINN: Yeah. That was a phenomenal ending.
Made you look.
GOLDBERG: Some of the artists like the fact we put
- a background number on. - (ALL LAUGHING)
- (VOICES OVERLAPPING) - FINN: Blew holes and all of that, yeah.
Great stuff. There's Amy Pell, Richard.
KEANE: I really appreciate that Amy Pell
let us bring dogs into the studio.
FINN: There were pets running rampant in the studio.
KEANE: Until our dog pooped in her office, then that changed.
DEJA: Then we had a snake in one office, and a mouse or a rat in the other.
It was just getting a little too close for comfort.
FINN: Debbie Armstrong was one of the assistants on the movie,
and she had a dog that was always
running out in the hall and barking at me.
KEANE: There was a feeling about this series of films that we did there,
in that time around Aladdin
and Beauty and the Beast and The Little Mermaid.
We were all down in those warehouses in Glendale,
and there was this esprit de corps.
You're in the surroundings that just aren't so cool looking.
The little cubicles and spaces, but we were all...
GOLDBERG: Kind of a Termite Terrace. KEANE: Yeah.
Yeah, almost like being in your garage, you know,
and there was sort of a comfort to that.
It wasn't real high tech, it wasn't real slick,
but it was like the playroom.
DEJA: But good films came out of it. KEANE: Yeah.
Was Mark Dindal's name on it? Mark's a director.
He did Emperor's New Groove and he's working on Chicken Little now.
He was an effects artist back then.
Here's our phenomenal backup, uh, clean up team.
FINN: They were great. Renee Holt did a beautiful job on Jasmine.
KEANE: Renee has some of the best line work ever.
FINN: It was a bit of a dream at that time,
because people were actually seeing our films.
GOLDBERG: Yeah.
FINN: And for so long I remember being
so impressed on Great Mouse Detective,
that our character was on a Cocoa Puffs box.
(ALL LAUGHING)
"Oh, wow! We've made it big time."
I've gotta shout out to the Iago crew, Nancy Kniep and Marianne Tucker.
They're great. We worked on a lot of movies together.
Not only were the audience seeing them,
but when Little Mermaid came along, it was scary
because it was the movie we all wanted to work on
and the crew was really excited about.
But actually, I remember people looking at each other in the halls
thinking, "Are we up to this yet?"
We were all so young at that point.
And it was really trying to try and deliver up to that movie.
I certainly remember personally feeling like, I'm not worthy.
But after we'd been through Beauty and this one,
it was really like we were all hitting our stride
and the material was satisfying.
It was really a fun time.
It was like, I couldn't... I had to pinch myself
I'm a cartoonist. I'm doing cartoon movies people like.
KEANE: Ron and John were fantastic directors to work with.
They always challenged you to make it better.
Sometimes it was frustrating.
You'd show something you think was great
and they'd barely chuckle,
so you'd go back and try to make it funnier and show it to them.
"Hey, that last one was funny. Why'd you change it?"
"You didn't laugh."
(ALL LAUGHING)
Well, the highest praise I ever heard from John Musker was,
(IMITATES JOHN) "Okay."
"Uh, we'll send it to camera and cut it and see what it looks like."
- And I knew I'd really scored by that. - (LAUGHTER CONTINUES)
GOLDBERG: Actually I got a lovely piece of praise from John,
showing him one scene, and one I didn't expect.
One of my favorite scenes just as pure character animation
was the scene of Baloo wiggling around
and dancing to Bear Necessities.
And I would always look at that scene and think,
"And it's just a pile of drawings."
So I brought in my dance scene, and John really liked it,
the one where he climbs down the tongue
and does the Cab Calloway.
And John goes, "And it's a pile of drawings."
- And I was so moved by it. - (ALL LAUGHING)
I can't say.
KEANE: You hadn't compared notes on that?
GOLDBERG: No, not at all. It just kind of came out.
KEANE: It just seems hard to believe.
It's a stack of paper and you flip it, and suddenly, something comes to life.
That's the magic. It's alchemy, pure alchemy.
GOLDBERG: On that note, we should probably say our goodbyes.
FINN: This is Will Finn saying goodbye.
Thank you for watching Aladdin with us.
GOLDBERG: Eric Goldberg. Bye, folks. Thanks for listening.
KEANE: And Glen Keane. Thanks a lot.
DEJA: And this is Andreas Deja. Thanks for watching.